£25 Late Entry/cancellation Fee!

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samier
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£25 Late Entry/cancellation Fee!

Post by samier »

I wish to express my displeasure about the the £25 fee for late race entries. I appreciate that those in admin would like to get all entries in on time, but the cut off date is some 3 weeks before the actual race.

I find it totally unacceptable to be hit with a fee if you are late in getting your entries. At times people will have situations where they are not able to confirm 3 weeks in advance if they can race, ok, if you book anyway and you want to cancel again you get hit with a £25 cancellation fee!

I dont know if I am the only one who feels this is unfair, but if you do agree please make your feelings known.

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Re: £25 Late Entry/cancellation Fee!

Post by tristancliffe »

The reason we have to get our race entries in some three weeks beforehand is because sorting the timetable to an extent where meetings run smoothly, despite organising clubs cramming in as many races as possible, requires the number of people racing to be known. That way they know whether Mono gets one grid or two (or three), whether races get merged to form a decent grid size, and to enable allocation of paddock space.

99.9% of people will know if they are racing at an event more than three weeks before that event. The small proportion of people that don't know for one reason or another are not barred from entering, but awarded a cash penalty for being disorganised and making the CSCC's job harder.

I'm hardly a diplomat, but I see that the £25 late fee makes perfect sense. What would happen if there wasn't the penalty? Far too many people would enter with just days to go, with the result that the timetable will be a mess, races get cancelled, and you go home £200 out of pocket (plus expenses) rather than £25. If you want the fun of racing then you have to give the people that arrange it for you a bit of a chance to actually arrange it.

Cancellation fees are pretty much the same. It stops people entering to avoid paying the late fee only to pull out when they realise they weren't organised enough to make it, hitting grid sizes, and putting slack in parts of the arranged timetable that could have been put to better use elsewhere.

Besides, your car will be ready as you're testing on the 25th, so you have no excuses! I have no sympathy I'm afraid.
Tristan Cliffe - MSV F3 Cup - Dallara F307 Image
Monoposto Champion 2008, 2010 & 2011 with a Reynard 883 and a Dallara F398, and F3 Cup and Team Champion 2012

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samier
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Re: £25 Late Entry/cancellation Fee!

Post by samier »

I disagree with many of your points, 3 weeks is simply too long, but if they need 3 weeks they should streamline their process or get someone in who can do a better job.

Maybe I should start to live at home, ask daddy to pay for my racing, that way I would have no problems eh Tristan? :wink:

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Re: £25 Late Entry/cancellation Fee!

Post by andrewcliffe »

Depends on your circumstances. Many people know what their schedule is longer with 3 weeks to go. The three weeks then involves programmes being printed, grids shuffled, reserve lists arranged.

If then 3 weeks before an event there are not enough numbers to make it viable, you've still got 3 weeks to get more people or to cancel the event and give people sufficient warning.

Tristan doesn't live at our parents home and since August last year most of his spare time and all of his money has been ploughed into the Dallara.
Last edited by andrewcliffe on Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew Cliffe - Monoposto photographer - http://www.norwichphoto.co.uk & Racing Exposure - http://www.racingexposure.com/blog

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tristancliffe
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Re: £25 Late Entry/cancellation Fee!

Post by tristancliffe »

samier wrote:I disagree with many of your points, 3 weeks is simply too long, but if they need 3 weeks they should streamline their process or get someone in who can do a better job.

Maybe I should start to live at home, ask daddy to pay for my racing, that way I would have no problems eh Tristan? :wink:
I believe it is Richard Culverhouse that does the timetables himself, and he explained his reasons (that I paraphrased above) at the 2008 AGM when we started using the CSCC to arrange our racing. I don't know if he also has a day job, or if the CSCC is his only source of income, but there is a lot more to arranging a race day than just paying in cheques!!!

I don't think there was any need for that last little comment Samier. I haven't lived at home for a couple of years (and as of this evening I'll also be a live-in landlord), and whilst Martin pays for some of the racing, every single spare penny I earn and every spare minute I have goes into it. Might I also remind you that you've only done one race, and have had quite a lot of your car prepared for you by someone else.

May I also, secondly, mention that our car is not ready yet. Not for the test day in a weeks time, and not for the first race meeting. But I still know, via the planning system that is an A4 list, that I'll be driving at both.

If you a problem with fathers assisting racing, be it financially or with spanners, then perhaps you should also have a chat with the Harrisons, the Anstruthers, the Impeys etc etc.

Looking forward to seeing you at Snett next week. Just to let you know that we run a cancellation fee of £35 on Garage Share schemes (well, we do now).
Tristan Cliffe - MSV F3 Cup - Dallara F307 Image
Monoposto Champion 2008, 2010 & 2011 with a Reynard 883 and a Dallara F398, and F3 Cup and Team Champion 2012

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Re: £25 Late Entry/cancellation Fee!

Post by jimblockley »

Strange samier should make such a comment when everyone on here has been so helpful(particularly the Cliffe,s) to a novice .

Still i suppose we get rid of one high maintenance foreign NZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!! driver there is always another one waiting in the wings to take over.

ignore it Tristan perhaps he is another wind up merchant like Phil was.

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samier
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Re: £25 Late Entry/cancellation Fee!

Post by samier »

To clarify, I made a point about the £25 fee, yes I stand by what my view are on that.

Tristan, you do not know my circumstances, so there for your comment about no sympathy was not called for, and I do not wish to make the reason known! I do not have a problem with fathers assisting, but your comment pushed me to make a comment back.

Oh no why should I back out of the garage? thats still going ahead as planned!:)

Actually that is where you are wrong in your assesment that most of the car was done by someone else. I have spent the last 10 -12 weekends travelling 80 miles each way getting things sorted out in the car, I have put my own time effor and money into it. I am not complaining, It is a passion of mine so I am doing it. Yes I have asked for advice on the forum and a few people yourself included and appreciated the help, but I have not payed anyone a penny to do any of the mechanical or electrical work that was needed to be done after mallory ( the car was a mess and everything was totally wrong). Avit sorted out the panels for me and that was it.

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Re: £25 Late Entry/cancellation Fee!

Post by tristancliffe »

Then I retract my statement about you having work done, and wish you the best of luck with the approaching season.

Plus, this has all been sorted out via PM and everyone is friendly again. See you on the 25th!
Tristan Cliffe - MSV F3 Cup - Dallara F307 Image
Monoposto Champion 2008, 2010 & 2011 with a Reynard 883 and a Dallara F398, and F3 Cup and Team Champion 2012

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Re: £25 Late Entry/cancellation Fee!

Post by tristancliffe »

As an example - I've entered Anglesey already, but not sure if I'll make it - it depends if the car is a dog or not (or the driver, of course!). If it is I'd rather go testing again for a whole day and try to find some speed, but with any luck I'll be there watching Neil and JT disappear into the distance from the comfort of the cheaper seats.
Tristan Cliffe - MSV F3 Cup - Dallara F307 Image
Monoposto Champion 2008, 2010 & 2011 with a Reynard 883 and a Dallara F398, and F3 Cup and Team Champion 2012

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Re: £25 Late Entry/cancellation Fee!

Post by lee »

You will find Saimer that if you withdrew an entry a few days before the event you may get a full refund. It depends on what kind of mood the organiser is in. I once pulled out on the morning of an event and got a refund. I cant say if this is true of CCSC but it maybe so.
Ex Magic Motorsports official 3rd and test driver.
The other 883 outright race winner......seems so long ago!
Lee Bennett

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Re: £25 Late Entry/cancellation Fee!

Post by AndyY »

The CSCC application of the late entry fee is specifically to encourage people to enter races early. The reason for this is that it is massively expensive to put on a race meeting and the club needs to know that it will be financially viable as soon as possible, and it needs to be able to plan its cash flow. For eg, at Rockingham last year the CSCC made a loss on the meeting of over £3K because the not all the forecast number of entries turned up (not Mono, I know) - for a small club this is only justifiable once, maybe. CSCC is a relatively small club and so can't afford to carry much debt and yet it has to pay certain costs out up front. Being a small club, it also has lower overheads than most and this is one of the reasons why the club can try to offer competitive entry fees at good venues.

We all know that there will be times when a late call has to be made on an entry but that's just the way it is, & that's the penalty for (hopefully) benefits elsewhere.

I have often heard people say something along the lines of, "why don't they wait a bit longer, they know that we will enter", but that "faith" is hardly a good way to run a business. Plenty of people have promised to enter meetings in the past and then never shown. I'm afraid that the club needs to be certain of entries (and therefore income) as soon as possible in order to be assured that it will cover its costs. Every meeting is a delicate financial balancing act and I can assure you that your (and my) £25 late entry fee is a far less significant financial worry or hit to you (and me) than the prospect of a large number of so-called late entries not actually showing.

Sorry folks, but that's my take and I can assure you that the late entry fees apply to all CSCC members as much as they do to guest series.

And by the way Samier, I really do think that CSCC's processes are pretty streamlined and their overheads low, nevertheless, if you think that you can do better I am sure that Richard and Hugo at CSCC will be very happy to have you help them out. Richard has been trying to retire for a while and Hugo would be glad of the help!
Andy Yeomans - former Mono 1800 and 2000 racer (!?). Now CSCC and aspiring Clubmans racer.

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Re: £25 Late Entry/cancellation Fee!

Post by andrewcliffe »

Club F3 had their Pembrey round cancelled last year with less than a weeks notice. Caused a bit of a kerfuffle at the time. People will have booked time off work, accommodation, as well as the cost of a race entry (presume refunded), but also the time and cost in car preparation for Pembrey which could have been deferred to the next round.
Andrew Cliffe - Monoposto photographer - http://www.norwichphoto.co.uk & Racing Exposure - http://www.racingexposure.com/blog

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Re: £25 Late Entry/cancellation Fee!

Post by phuston »

This season Monoposto are doing their own race entry administration. Your entry is paid to MRC who have purchased the races from CSCC, and a.n.other. This means that the club has already purchased the Snetterton and Anglesey races. At the AGM, the Treasurer showed a graph that illustrated the effect this purchasing policy, dictated by CSCC, on the club's cash flow throughout the season, it was anything but a level line.

The three week deadline is to permit our administrator to sort our entries prior to providing CSCC with a 'final list'. Cheques are not cashed until the entries are submitted.

Because we are administering our own entries, it is hoped that a competitor with a bona fide reason for being unable to race will recieve a refund. Simon Davey is a vastly experienced competitor, he understands competitor's problems (and the possible scams), but entering in good time will make his task easier, and enable the Club Treasurer to sleep more easily).

As Stephen makes clear, me are now a motor racing business, most race meetings cost five figures + or -, this is money that the club is committed to paying to enable our members to race.

At Stoneleigh Race Retro I was claiming that we offered the best value racing, nobody contradicted me. The financial arrangements that we have enable us to offer cheaper races than the competition. Entering a week earlier than usual is a small inconvenience when this is taken into consideration.
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Re: £25 Late Entry/cancellation Fee!

Post by broadside »

I think most of us understand the reality of the business and appreciate all the hard work (and financial balancing) that is achieved by mostly volunteers. I hope one persons hasty comments dont offend those hard working people. The 3 week rule has been well publicised for long enough.

Roll on the 4th!!

(Tristan - remember not to blow your old Reynard mates off into the weeds with that new beast! :D )
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Re: £25 Late Entry/cancellation Fee!

Post by tristancliffe »

broadside wrote:(Tristan - remember not to blow your old Reynard mates off into the weeds with that new beast! :D )
I think you'll find the opposite will occur, especially at first! If you see a shiny red car pottering around at granny speeds be kind and leave me some room when you lap me :(
Tristan Cliffe - MSV F3 Cup - Dallara F307 Image
Monoposto Champion 2008, 2010 & 2011 with a Reynard 883 and a Dallara F398, and F3 Cup and Team Champion 2012

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