Rain Lights

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samier
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Re: Rain Lights

Postby samier » Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:20 pm


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Re: Rain Lights

Postby tristancliffe » Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:29 pm

Despite being 'MSA Approved', that rain light is a complete waste of time. My dashboard lights (single LEDs) are brighter. Plus it's got a horrible mounting arrangement, with a silly double angle that requires a more complicated bracket that needs be.

Avoid if you value safety in the slightest.

I bought the one from DC Electronics for the Dallara. It was about £80. It's about 50 times brighter than the one you suggest Samier.
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samier
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Re: Rain Lights

Postby samier » Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:36 pm

Whats the issue here cost or brightness? I hear some people moaning and bitching about the costs.. so that is a cheap one which is FIA approved!

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Re: Rain Lights

Postby tristancliffe » Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:42 pm

Sure, if you just want to pass scrutineering, and are happy to risk other's not being able to see you (whicy could result in nastiness of various forms), then by all means buy one of those. Alternatively fit a candle, which is going to be just as bright.

Or, for a few quid extra (use the fact we've got a few hundred quids worth less races this year in Mono to find the extra 40 off pounds) buy something that stands a chance of being visible through a bit of spray.

Why should people be allowed to put their fellow competitors at extra risk for the sake of not that much money?

And, to repeat, I had one of those 'cheap' lights on the Reynard - I didn't know any better. Learn from my mistake. Nobody hit me, but I wouldn't go on track with something so useless again.
Tristan Cliffe - MSV F3 Cup - Dallara F307 Image
Monoposto Champion 2008, 2010 & 2011 with a Reynard 883 and a Dallara F398, and F3 Cup and Team Champion 2012

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Re: Rain Lights

Postby jmtechnical » Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:31 pm

Spend abit more and call dermot for his one well worth it. I can sell you the merlin one for a £10 or you can get the same one from maplins for around a £10. MSA etc sticker cost that much. Any way only recommended for mono events now.

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Re: Rain Lights

Postby Russ » Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:11 pm

samier wrote:http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/477300197__List_19_Rain_Lights.pdf

List of all office suppliers/manufacturers.

http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p1454 ... 3a95b4e985

£44.22 inc vat


Samier
The list you have linked to is not the current one. The latest is linked to by ArtyB further back in this thread, for convenience here http://www.fia.com/en-GB/sport/regulati ... Lists.aspx
List 19 is the one to look at. the Merlin one and many similar is still there.

As with all these things, there are many variables, the lights have quite a narrow viewing angle, so if it is not correctly mounted you will have a significantly reduced apparent brightness. The type in question also has quite a deep shroud, this again reduces the viewing angle. As Tristan rightly says above, they have an unusual mounting face angle, as some of our esteemed members freely admit, they are quite poor engineers, the likely hood if them accurately mounting the light to get best performance is somewhat slim. Others just dont care and tywrap it to any old bit at the back of the car, looking to illuminate grubs or aeroplanes as the mood takes them at the time! (Cough, Cough, Dermot, Cough, Cough...............)
And yes I know that the scrutineers are supposed to check this, but they are usually forced to be focused on the latest MSA flavor of the month than doing the best job they can for the real world.
As most of you are aware you can get very similar parts from other suppliers for much less. this entails fitting a resistor before use, the value of that resistor is critical in achieving the brightness, so is the voltage of the on board electrical system.
The light has been homologated by the FIA, to reasonable test criteria, it wont be 'completely crap' if used in the correct manner.
Having said all that, I do feel that the larger ones are probably a better bet for most of the cars in the club, but even these will have dangerously poor performance if mounted badly.

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Re: Rain Lights

Postby samier » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:20 am

spbracing wrote:Spend abit more and call dermot for his one well worth it. I can sell you the merlin one for a £10 or you can get the same one from maplins for around a £10. MSA etc sticker cost that much. Any way only recommended for mono events now.


Whats Dermots one all about? Is it high intensity LED? as Tristans? Is it MSA/FIA approved?

Any pics?

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Re: Rain Lights

Postby tristancliffe » Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:34 am

Sorry to be a bit rude Samier, but if you read Dermot's post in this thread you'd quickly see his is a Lifeline one. Then, if you look at List 19 on the page that Russ posted you'd see the Lifeline light is MSA approved. And it only takes a few seconds to find it on the Lifeline website.

I'm not averse to helping people where I can (which I know isn't very often), but if you can't be bothered to read posts then there is only so much we/I can do.

Give Dermot a ring. He's a friendly, helpful chap and I'm sure he can get a light to your doorstep tomorrow, and I would wager it's as bright as anything (and certainly a lot brighter than the Merlin one). I'd have bought one off him, but the Lifeline one won't fit into the rainlight housing on the Dallara (without modifying the carbon housing or the rain light, neither of which I was inclined to do).
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Monoposto Champion 2008, 2010 & 2011 with a Reynard 883 and a Dallara F398, and F3 Cup and Team Champion 2012

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Re: Rain Lights

Postby RedRedWine » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:49 pm

Russ wrote:they have an unusual mounting face angle, as some of our esteemed members freely admit, they are quite poor engineers, the likely hood of them accurately mounting the light to get best performance is somewhat slim.


Speaking as one of these non-engineers who last year spent (by my standards) a lot of time and effort to make a mounting bracket for one of the "Cheapo" FIA lights, I would very much appreciate some practical advice.

The leaflet with the light says it has a 15degree slope on the mounting face for "optimum visibility" but I duly mounted it square, just like the old £3.99 Ring Red Rear Fog Light I used to use (which is dimmer and more important loads less rleiable than the LED).

So the question is - should it be square or at an angle? I know Eng. Dallara puts a rather natty streamlined mounting on his rear wings and the light in that is square, but is this appropriate when the light is mounted a bit lower?

I know I would be better with a "Lifeline" type, but I think we have to accept that not everybody will go for that option, and we should try for the best achievable safety level with what we've got and what is approved.
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Re: Rain Lights

Postby Nick Harrison » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:10 pm

RedRedWine wrote:
Russ wrote:they have an unusual mounting face angle, as some of our esteemed members freely admit, they are quite poor engineers, the likely hood of them accurately mounting the light to get best performance is somewhat slim.


Speaking as one of these non-engineers who last year spent (by my standards) a lot of time and effort to make a mounting bracket for one of the "Cheapo" FIA lights, I would very much appreciate some practical advice.

The leaflet with the light says it has a 15degree slope on the mounting face for "optimum visibility" but I duly mounted it square, just like the old £3.99 Ring Red Rear Fog Light I used to use (which is dimmer and more important loads less rleiable than the LED).

So the question is - should it be square or at an angle? I know Eng. Dallara puts a rather natty streamlined mounting on his rear wings and the light in that is square, but is this appropriate when the light is mounted a bit lower?

I know I would be better with a "Lifeline" type, but I think we have to accept that not everybody will go for that option, and we should try for the best achievable safety level with what we've got and what is approved.


This is the light in question I think whether FIA/MSA approved at a princely sum or under a tenner at Maplin. As the description says it is intended for making up displays and as such should probably be mounted with the lens angled down.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?Mod ... 96#specifi

When attached to the rear of a race car as a high intensity light who knows how it should be? I would venture to say that as Eng. Dallara was starting with a clean sheet of paper and bothered to put his in a bespoke carbon shroud if other than upright was preferable that is what he would have done.

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Re: Rain Lights

Postby schomosport » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:15 pm

God I am starting to hate this subject.

Anyone want to buy my cheapo ex-Ebay rainlight complete with lovingly crafted bracket? (Bit of bent 20swg stainless).

Ralt rear wing post and Hewland MK9 to align lamp square(ish) to verticle and centre line not included. Angle of dangle adjustable through approximately 2 degrees by slackening wing post mounting bolts and pushing wing post forward/backwards as required.

Is there any truth in the rumour that scrutrineering bays will be provided with Class 1 optical benches and darkroom facilities to ensure correct fitting? Or that scrutineering will commence at 20:00 hours night before so all can get done in time?
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Re: Rain Lights

Postby phuston » Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:45 am

And there I was thinking that the function of a red light was to let the scrutineer check the battery isolation switch............ :D
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Re: Rain Lights

Postby broadside » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:56 pm

NO !!!!!!!! please don't start a whole debate on battery isolation switches !!!!!!! :lol:
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Re: Rain Lights

Postby tristancliffe » Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:12 pm

I've got a lovely master switch. It's got red bits on it! ;) :D

No, that is NOT a euphamism....
Tristan Cliffe - MSV F3 Cup - Dallara F307 Image
Monoposto Champion 2008, 2010 & 2011 with a Reynard 883 and a Dallara F398, and F3 Cup and Team Champion 2012

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Re: Rain Lights

Postby broadside » Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:20 pm

yes thats all very nice but is the red of the correct ral code as approved by the MSA/FIA? :D
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