Harness mounting points for 2009

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Rupert Racing
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Harness mounting points for 2009

Postby Rupert Racing » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:39 pm

Anybody paid much attention to page 162 para. 45 of this years blue book regarding mounting points for 6 point harnesses ?
My FVJ has built-in mounts in the chassis for the lapbelt to which are also fastened the crotch belts. It has sailed through scrutineering for the past 2 years with this configuration and indeed, I can vouch for their effectiveness, as those that were at Snetterton will understand !

However, it would appear that this year I have to compromise the original design by drilling 2 more holes in the chassis in order to seperate the crotch belt mounts so as to comply with the blue book regs. Seems extreme to me, yet I don't want to get to Snett only to be pulled in scrutineering !

What are others doing ?

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tristancliffe
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Re: Harness mounting points for 2009

Postby tristancliffe » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:56 pm

Glad to hear you're still able to type! I'm still so, so sorry.

Anyway, our Reynard was like this, with a single mounting point for lap and crutch on each side, and nobody said anything. But I don't think they'd know, because our seat covers up the mounts, and the seat can't be removed without taking out the gearlever - not a 2 minute job!!!

If you can cover it up then maybe you'll be okay. If not then you're in the complex grey area of adding a new mounting point in a structure that was intended for it. It could well be fine and perfectly strong enough (the crutch straps probably only get a fraction of the forces encountered by the lap and shoulder straps), but you might want to discuss that with someone more intimate with the cars.

Alternatively, remove the belts after scrutineering and use the old fashioned "hoping you'll be thrown clear of the car" approach. We can probably knock up a cloth helmet for you too :D
Tristan Cliffe - MSV F3 Cup - Dallara F307 Image
Monoposto Champion 2008, 2010 & 2011 with a Reynard 883 and a Dallara F398, and F3 Cup and Team Champion 2012

Rupert Racing
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Re: Harness mounting points for 2009

Postby Rupert Racing » Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:21 pm

who said I can ? - voice recognition technology has been really useful ;-)

Anyway, enough of the apologising - t'was a simply a racing incident I believe and this year with my newly installed transit van mirrors I'll have a chance to see you (or whoever) coming !

Not so sure on the 'been thrown clear theory', I was glad I was kept inside my little car last year but Stirling Moss may disagree !

Is it worth speaking to John (club scrutineer) about his thoughts on modifying a factory design in order to comply ? Maybe he can seek clarification from the MSA ?

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Re: Harness mounting points for 2009

Postby phuston » Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:22 pm

Rupert,

Good to see your post.

I would contact the MSA and explain the situation to them, its their regulation.

If they have got into work today they are probably looking for something to do.

I don't see boring holes in a certified chassis as a good idea.

If you do contact them please report your findings.

Regards,

Patrick
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Re: Harness mounting points for 2009

Postby samier » Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:43 am

Having recently fitted my belts, I remember there are 2 mounting points for each of the crotch belts, this is covererd by the seat, 2 points for the lap belts either side and 2 for the shoulder straps.

I have read the blue book and it all seems to comply? or have I missed something?

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Re: Harness mounting points for 2009

Postby Rupert Racing » Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:29 pm

Hi Sam,
looks like your chassis is different to mine in that it has additional mounting points. I will double check in case they have somehow been covered. In the meantime, I have sent an email to the MSA seeking their guidance.

Cheers
Rupert

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Re: Harness mounting points for 2009

Postby Rupert Racing » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:19 pm

All,
I have had the following response from the MSA...

'The regulation covering harnesses in Car racing is G125, which simply states that FIA homologated harnesses are to be fitted. The regulation does not specify the number of fixing points to the chassis. With safety regulations anything fitted beyond the minimum requirements should not be rejected, unless it compromises safety.

Therefore where a six point harness is not mandatory, the fitment of a six point harness should be accepted providing the fitment of such does not cause a hazard.

Hope this clarifies the position.

Regards
Michael Duncan
'

so I am taking this as meaning that I am safe to continue using my current setup and I will be taking a copy of the email to all meetings :-)

Rupert

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tristancliffe
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Re: Harness mounting points for 2009

Postby tristancliffe » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:29 pm

That is good news. It does seem a bit silly to state otherwise in C(c):45 that 6 mounting points are required if this is not 100% the case.

Taking the email with you is a good idea too. You might even be able to get a chief scrutineer to put their signature on it too, for added clout.
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Monoposto Champion 2008, 2010 & 2011 with a Reynard 883 and a Dallara F398, and F3 Cup and Team Champion 2012

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Re: Harness mounting points for 2009

Postby schomosport » Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:12 pm

tristancliffe wrote:But I don't think they'd know, because our seat covers up the mounts, and the seat can't be removed without taking out the gearlever - not a 2 minute job!!!

If you can cover it up then maybe you'll be okay.


Don't rely on the 'can't see it, won't get asked' approach. I have had to remove the seat cover on an FVL so the scutineer could check the pressure gauge to the fire extinguisher (poor layout, never got round to correcting it). Fiddly under pressure, don't need the hassle. If you have any similar instances know how to do it and have the tools to hand (Tristan, yes I know you have now changed cars). Getting caps off master cyclinder reservoirs can also be a buggerance given the frequently restricted access plus they invariably seem to need far more effort to release than to screw them on. Bit of a laugh in Mallory scrutineering bay since if the reservoir is properly full to the mark when you take the cap off most of the fluid wil slop over the side. Have a big screwdriver or pair of water pump pliers to hand. And of course if you plan all this you will never have to do it anyway......

Don't rely on precedent either - I have had to scrounge a power drill to make modifications and lash up throttle springs that made the whole affair much more dangerous to satisfy scrutineers who I know had previously approved the very same arrangement without comment. And not through rule changes either.......
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