GRID SIZES

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karl
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Re: GRID SIZES

Post by karl »

Tristan,
I was well aware that his "mini mono's" statement was a remark about the fact the cars are probably, lighter, smaller and smaller cc - rather than being offensive, and I made the comment maybe because your scared was clearly meant as some sort of a joke! - how could that be serious coming from a guy who hasent even raced a single seater yet, I'm sure I will be the one who is scared.

Shakeyfinch,

The safety isssue- I mentioned that I was aware of several crashes because of speed differences in testing between 2000ltr and other cars testing with the b.e.c.'s So obviously that does make me think, although I have no expierence and I'm not aware of the exact situation, nor do I know much about the other classes of cars. Yet I did say it doesnt worry me as a new guy who you put me in with - as long as it doesnt ruin the flow of the racing - and based on what I've heard that would be my concern. Obviously you always have to contend with slower cars/drivers even if they are the same cars, but I wouldnt want to come over or into something blind at max speed to find out a car that couldnt carry that speed was now a sudden problem. - I dont know if the differences are that obvious?

Shakey you refur to many years ago mixed grids, obviously the 2lt cars are quicker now - but I supose most bike engine cars would be 600cc many years ago, I know In the factory championship with the Mk6 cars with 1000cc motors, the performance has change dramatically in the last 3 years - Im sure Kat's car is of that up to date type (so I guess you are well aware of this). I also know that some of the factory championship guys have raced in mono to find the pace to be much slower - which is actually why Mono appeals to me as a novice - So I guess there is a lot more performance In these bike engine cars, obviously its easier to race cars of the same type because there are less obstructions to deal with and maybe a faster overall pace- but when some of these guys raced in mono apparently they stormed ahead. So I guess what they have said about general testing with mixed cars and speed differences makes sense but maybe more specifically to those drivers???

No offence meant - I am up for mixed grids the more cars of similar speed the better - as long as it wasnt like my ards test, where all the general public on expierence days and track days guys were making the track flow like the m25, I want to be able to maintain and carry the speed! Obviously I might get a better Idea when I see you guys at silverstone.

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tristancliffe
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Re: GRID SIZES

Post by tristancliffe »

karl wrote:and I made the comment maybe because your scared was clearly meant as some sort of a joke! - how could that be serious coming from a guy who hasent even raced a single seater yet, I'm sure I will be the one who is scared.
You still won't have too many problems becoming 'as good as me'. It's not hard to reach my levels of amateurish driving. I probably do spend half my time in the car terrified, but mostly of being slow.

See you at Silverstone!
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phuston
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Re: GRID SIZES

Post by phuston »

Over the last ten seasons I have done over a hundred races with Monoposto and reported many of them. But I am struggling to remember any where simple speed difference, as envisaged by Karl, was the cause of a collision. It is unusual for a faster car to collide with the back of a slower car, but this can happen with a spun car. Just as on the Queen's Highway, the greater the difference in speed between the overtaker and the overtaken, the more options the faster car has and the less time the cars are side by side. The most usual site for the type of collision envisaged by Karl is if a car stalls on the starting grid. In practice, the grid is the place where a collision is most likely.

Side to side collisions can occur when faster cars lap slower cars, when this takes place it may be due to one or both of the drivers involved making an error of judgement, these include the driver of the slower car not using his/her mirrors and competing for the apex of a corner, and the faster driver cutting in too rapidly believing that they were clear ahead.

At first sight the speed difference between a car travelling at 150mph and a car travelling at 120mph looks impressive but the difference is 30mph, the residential speed limit. Admittedly there are many other factors when on track, but even granny in her Micra is expected to avoid the lampposts as she drives round the village with this speed difference!

Naturally, the greater the speed difference, the greater the frequency of cars being lapped, but the increased chance of collision is offset, to a certain extent, by the increased experience gained by both drivers of the lapping situation.

I suspect that cars racing wheel to wheel collide far more frequently than faster cars lapping slower cars, but lack any statistics to support this view. I also suspect that the primary collision between two race cars rarely does substantial damage, it is the damage inflicted in any secondary collision caused by loss of control as the momentum of a car causes it to collide with something stationary, or another car going in a different direction.
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conan
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Re: GRID SIZES

Post by conan »

As this is a safety thread and with the accidents involving Henry Surtees and Massa I would point out the importance of being sat in the car correcttly.
You should be able to see the tops of the front tyres and about 25mm of the inner tyre wall.
The only way to achive the correct position is to make a 2-pack foam seat.
If you can see more than this your sat too high!!!

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Re: GRID SIZES

Post by ofarc »

Hi Conan,

I am sorry but what you state is fictional. What specifies the correct seating position is your head height in relation to the imaginary line drawn from the roll hoop to the next resting place on the chassis if the car was upside down. If your head, with helmet fitted, is above this then you are too high in the car. Nothing to do with tyre viewing. I think this is in the Blue Book.

We all, as drivers, understand the risks involved driving single seaters, and the tragic loss of Surtees, and the accident involving Massa are terribly sad. But they were both very unusual accidents.

We must all, as drivers and sometimes mechanics, ensure our cars are fit for racing for our own safety and that of others following us. Properly prepared cars and spanner checking between every session is a must.

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Re: GRID SIZES

Post by AndyY »

Conan, it's not a safety thread but a grid sizes thread, its just that percetions of safety issues have been quoted as reasons for certain grid compositions.

Has Mono ever trialled a Mono 2000/ 1400/1000 grid and a Mono 1600/1800 grid? Why not try that grid composition at Croft & Snetterton & review for next season?
Andy Yeomans - former Mono 1800 and 2000 racer (!?). Now CSCC and aspiring Clubmans racer.

karl
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Re: GRID SIZES

Post by karl »

Phuston - What you say makes sense, especially as there is not much difference in these classes.

Recently I was at mallory, traveling faster than most and it caused no problem to me - probably because there is a good view of the traffic ahead, It did break the flow of the drive, which made it a bit of a stop start expierence, that was when big speed differences were obvious, so small ones would obviously be no problem.

I have no particular expierence of single seater racing or of the different types of cars - only what I have been told.

I did see video footage of a crash at Brands Hatch, where an expierenced driver I know in a (bike engine car) came screaming round a corner to clip the back wheel of a slower car, he took off ending up side down in the gravel trap. I presume it must have been a visability issue (hidden dip?).
Also the some one else testing at brands hatch on a different day ran into the back of a 2ltr car in the same make of b.e.c and said it was a corner speed issue? and the same guy got caught up with a formula ford in testing? obviously could be driver error, late braking etc...
When this guy first raced his car at silverstone he put in some good times in the factory championship against expierenced drivers.

Obviously being a new guy, I perhaps get to hear all sorts of stories - but some I know to be true, although the exact content may not be accurate.

A guy I bought some parts off and a couple others who raced in Mono, said the speed differences are so great that he/they wouldnt race it again.

However I was also told by the guy I got my car off - That mono was the way forward, even more so for a new driver. That they are more friendly and gentlemen like than factory championship drivers. His son who was the driver of my car has some pretty impressive results in his f1 car so mono was a good route for him - check out scott mansell -

I appreciate this thread has been worn out now, and some where along the line grid sizes, were turned into crash saftey and speed differences. I know nothing! hopefully I will know a bit more after this weekend.

Does any one know what time races start on sat? or which order the classes race in?

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Re: GRID SIZES

Post by andrewcliffe »

1000, 1400, 1800 - practise session 2 09:40-09:55, 2nd race est. start 13.50

2000 & 1600 - practise session 6 11:40-11:55, race 6, 16:30 although race timetable gets progressively more inaccurate depending on how much mopping up is required.
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karl
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Re: GRID SIZES

Post by karl »

I retract all my previous statements on this topic since going to silverstone to watch mono. I know nothing - was based on information provided by previous expierenced racers -

I can not see speed differences being an issue - as every one has to contend with slower cars, also I do not think speed in way I was led to believe would be a major issue in causing accidents. Quite nice to see big mixed grids!

I would like to see the 2lts against the 1000's if the speeds are similar, I appreciate their are other factors, I think it would make sense to run 1600s with the 1800s -still from an inexpierenced perspective-

I my self "young ish and dumb" would not be to concerned about being hit by a carbon tub when in my jedi, racing is dangerous any way.(yes you can minimalise the risk h.s.e - dont leave home that day!) Even though they are different classes and I would probably would race for overall position, if there was no one else to play with. Still got to over take those cars to get to other cars of the same class.

Seems to work as it is though (its all good fun)

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