Hans Device

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Hans Device

Postby TFR » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:30 pm

I had good reason to thank Dr Steve Griffin for a post he put on the forum a few years ago,it basically said a hans device is the best safety device you can buy,cheaper than a wheel chair and should you have a big one if you have the former you will not need the latter.I am so glad I took his advice, at Mallory I left Gerrards halfway round at 100mph plus,hit the wet grass,and head on into the armco,one row of tyres were totally inefective,100-0 in about 18 inches,the violence of that sort of decelaration is hard to believe, and not an experience I would wish to repeat,despite the seat belts my chest hit the steering wheel the rubber was worn off the hans device in a split second,there is no way my neck, or anyone elses, could have taken that without the hans,the cosequences of me not having one 2 weeks ago do not bear thinking about.
As we all know most accidents are not like this,most times you go in at some sort of angle, take a corner or two off, bounce about and dissapte some energy,plenty of damage but not too much pain.Safety is ok at a lot of circuits,but there are still plenty of places where we race that are well below F1 standards.
The more people that can learn from my experience the better,if Steve had not had Dr in front of his name I would probably have not taken him too seriously,it would be a good thing if he could write a bit more on the subject.Dr Sid Watkins says the hans device is the most important safety measure introduced in the last 30 years.I am very pleased to say Chris Woodhouse has invested in one, also Gary and Christopher Hill,both I believe as a direct result of viewing the aftermath of my accident,they(hans) are a bit restrictive when you first use them but its like riding a bike, you soon get used to it.
So to sum up please go out and buy one, yes they are expensive,hopefully you will never need it,but life in a wheelchair is not a good way to go if it can be avoided,wives and girlfreinds,mothers and fathers,go out and get one for the driver in your life,call it a birthday or Xmas present,but do it now. GF
Team Fern Racing.
Geoff Fern #7 and #77,
Sarah Harvey-Fern

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Re: Hans Device

Postby tristancliffe » Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:48 am

Geoff,

I echo your sentiments, though fortunately I've not been in a position to need it. Yet. They're not especially cheap, as you also need to buy a new helmet, but prices are coming down, and remain cheaper than 24/7 care for the rest of your life - assuming you get out of the car.

I would suggest that ANYONE who races gets one - perhaps when they change their helmet to make the cost more bearable.

Don't buy a used one unless you are 100% satisfied it has never been crashed with - and I mean never; don't accept one that's been in a 'small' accident, as it still might have used the strength it has.

They do not restrict vision very much at all. Indeed, I think all new ones come with the "VisionPlus" sliding tethers, so that you can still turn your head past 90°. It might make reversing harder, but there is usually someone to help you there, and we've all got mirrors anyway.

Get one.
Tristan Cliffe - MSV F3 Cup - Dallara F307 Image
Monoposto Champion 2008, 2010 & 2011 with a Reynard 883 and a Dallara F398, and F3 Cup and Team Champion 2012

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Re: Hans Device

Postby Anson » Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:14 am

I fully agree - I have been using one for 5 seasons, they are now mandatory in the Nurbrugring series where I also race, and I would not sit in a race car without one!
Yes, they are expensive but still cost less than one race weekend...
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Re: Hans Device

Postby tristancliffe » Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:34 am

Oh and in 99% of cases you do NOT need to change seatbelts or buy HANS specific belts. 3" belts grip the device securely and safely.

Some cars may need to have the seatbelt pickup points (on the shoulders) slightly modified to ensure that the belt alignment is within HANS requirements. This is usually not much of a problem, although in some cases I imagine it would be.

And you may need to modify your foam seat a bit, but that's easy.

Some naysayers think that they'd be better off with a HANS device in the event of a roll over (i.e. wearing a HANS reduces your ability to duck). However, first of all you have to survive long enough to be able to duck - you can't if your head has fallen off - and secondly if you think that relying on luck (being able to duck, having time, having the presence of mind and having the strength to overcome the forces of impact) in a roll over is a good excuse to not wear a HANS then you are a silly person.
Tristan Cliffe - MSV F3 Cup - Dallara F307 Image
Monoposto Champion 2008, 2010 & 2011 with a Reynard 883 and a Dallara F398, and F3 Cup and Team Champion 2012

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Re: Hans Device

Postby samier » Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:57 pm

I fully agree with the comments above, when racing you can never know when you will be needing the device. Its human nature to become complacent. Yes they are expensive, but you cannot put a value on safety. Same goes for a helmet, you get many helmets that just scrape through Snell safety standards, but that is base level of protection, many manufacturers such as Bell and Arai exceed those and also offer FIA 8860 (Carbon Helmets) So its always worth buying the best out there you can afford.

Best ones to go for, Schroth or Stand 21. There are many angles available, but for single seaters 30 degree version works best. Last time I looked they were around 750+vat.

Further reading:

http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/700158

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Re: Hans Device

Postby stevengriffin » Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:54 am

Thank you for your kind comments gentlemen.
Hans is, as our American friend say, a " No brainer".
A couple of comments that might be of interest:-
1. I sometimes didn't take mine to scruntineering in the past as some of our learned colleagues had a lamantable lack of understanding of how they worked. I had a long argument at Croft once with the scruntineer who said that the straps had to be tight so I couldn't move my head! However often I tried to explain that they tightened in the event of an impact his mind was made up and he wasn't about to be influenced by the facts. As Hans is not compulsory sometimes it is better not to take them to the scruntineers' bay.
2. If you use the narrow belts then it IS compulsory to take the device to the scruntineers.
3. If you use the narrow belts in a two driver race (I know this doesn't happen in Mono) then both drivers must have a Hans.
4. At FIA events they are now getting snotty about the fitting of the Hans post to the helmets and even the age of the straps. They need in-date FIA stickers. Why???
5. Don't get too hung up about the angle, they come in various angles for different car types. I take the view that even the wrong angle is better than not wearing one. They do need to fit with the belts though.
I think that our law makers within the sport should be encouraging more competitors to use this device and should make it possible by not making us constantly change seat belts and the like that are obviously fit for purpose but just 'old' perhaps freeing up money to spend on this neck-saving little gadget. :?:

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Re: Hans Device

Postby Anson » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:49 am

stevengriffin wrote:4. At FIA events they are now getting snotty about the fitting of the Hans post to the helmets and even the age of the straps. They need in-date FIA stickers. Why???
5. Don't get too hung up about the angle, they come in various angles for different car types. I take the view that even the wrong angle is better than not wearing one. They do need to fit with the belts though.
. :?:


A couple of things here to Steve's post - if we are restricting ourselves to Mono here, then just buy a 30 degree one. I use a 20 degree in touring cars, where you sit pretty upright, and 30 degree for a single seater where we sit more reclined. The straps should be adjusted so that they stop your chin hitting your chest. Like seatbelts, they are designed to stretch under full load i.e. in an accident.

At FIA events you now have to have not just the FIA sticker on the HANS but also on the straps - I and many other drivers had to buy new straps at the Nurbrugring 24hrs this year...
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Re: Hans Device

Postby tristancliffe » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:02 am

I no longer take mine to scrutineering for the same reasons. A snotty scrut had it in his head that they needed to be in date with tight straps and attached to the helmet at all times (even though they are meant to unclip).

If a scrutineer asks me if I use a HANS, I just say I've got a helmet ready for one (with posts), but I'm still saving up for the device itself.
Tristan Cliffe - MSV F3 Cup - Dallara F307 Image
Monoposto Champion 2008, 2010 & 2011 with a Reynard 883 and a Dallara F398, and F3 Cup and Team Champion 2012

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Re: Hans Device

Postby samier » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:03 am

Anson wrote:
stevengriffin wrote:4. At FIA events they are now getting snotty about the fitting of the Hans post to the helmets and even the age of the straps. They need in-date FIA stickers. Why???
5. Don't get too hung up about the angle, they come in various angles for different car types. I take the view that even the wrong angle is better than not wearing one. They do need to fit with the belts though.
. :?:


A couple of things here to Steve's post - if we are restricting ourselves to Mono here, then just buy a 30 degree one. I use a 20 degree in touring cars, where you sit pretty upright, and 30 degree for a single seater where we sit more reclined. The straps should be adjusted so that they stop your chin hitting your chest. Like seatbelts, they are designed to stretch under full load i.e. in an accident.

At FIA events you now have to have not just the FIA sticker on the HANS but also on the straps - I and many other drivers had to buy new straps at the Nurbrugring 24hrs this year...


Never had any problems with scruts..But one did tell me thatI cannot use 3" belts, only 2".. which of course is rubbish. Mine are non adjustable (sliding) and are far better than the normal ones. I dont even feel as though I am wearing a HANS.

Sliding Tether

Image

Wearing a 10 or 20 deg when you need a 30 is a bit silly, buy one that suits the application rather than bodging it.

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Re: Hans Device

Postby tristancliffe » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:53 am

I believe the sliding tethers are now standard on all new HANS devices, including the Sport and GT versions.
Tristan Cliffe - MSV F3 Cup - Dallara F307 Image
Monoposto Champion 2008, 2010 & 2011 with a Reynard 883 and a Dallara F398, and F3 Cup and Team Champion 2012

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Re: Hans Device

Postby samier » Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:33 pm

Just checked the prices and seems like they are now around £850+vat. Might be a bit cheaper from the US as long as someone can send as a gift or bring ti with them.

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Re: Hans Device

Postby AndyY » Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:26 pm

You can buy the "Sport" version much cheaper at £395 + VAT here: http://www.msar-safety.com/detail.asp?p=148&o=20°_SPORT_HANS_Device_(Medium)

The Sport version is very slightly heavier - c 20 grammes, I think - which I doubt matters in a 20-30 minute race. They are made of thermoplastic rather than carbon fibre (hence the slight weight increase) but still meet the required standard. I believe that these are only available in 20 degree recline angles, however, when I used to race in Mono, in both a Vauxhall Junior & a Vauxhall Lotus I used to sit quite upright anyway, so it may be that the 20 degree is the right angle for you. Don't automatically assume that you need 30 degree.

This is the version that I now use, albeit in saloons.
Andy Yeomans - former Mono 1800 and 2000 racer (!?). Now CSCC and aspiring Clubmans racer.

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Re: Hans Device

Postby andrewcliffe » Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:50 pm

Haven't there been some fakes about? If the deal 'is too good to be true' it may not be genuine. Buyer beware and buy from reputable sources.

Sending as a gift from overseas raises tax threshold from £ 18 to £ 36 but will still attract duty AND VAT unless its declared at a tiny amount (but if it gets lost they'll say why have you insured it for £ 800 when customs declaration is only £ 30...)

VAT increase coming soon too...
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Re: Hans Device

Postby AndyY » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:28 am

Not heard any mention of fakes elsewhere but I suppose its possible. FWIW, MSAR are a reputable company & the thermoplastic "Sport" versions are genuine & to the required spec. In my vew they also have the advantage of the side "flip ups" (see the photo in the link) to help keep the belts from sliding off; better solution than the Schroth rubber in my view.
Andy Yeomans - former Mono 1800 and 2000 racer (!?). Now CSCC and aspiring Clubmans racer.

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Re: Hans Device

Postby jimblockley » Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:45 pm

all this talk of more safety devices makes me think that is why driving standards are deterioting, seems to me motoracing is now to safe and encourages drivers to turn it into a contact sport


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