Silverstone GP/Britcar Races

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Silverstone GP/Britcar Races

Postby RedRedWine » Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:48 pm

I know the results, but could anybody tell me some detail about what happened to them for a report on Startline?
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Re: Silverstone GP/Britcar Races

Postby RedRedWine » Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:52 pm

Please don't tell me qualifying was stopped because somebody left a car on the edge of Hangar Straight as I know that bit. Sorry to everybody about that.
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Re: Silverstone GP/Britcar Races

Postby TFR » Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:43 pm

This is pureley the Fernview,is TFR biased,and probably of little interest to many,but I think we were really clever going out on wets with 43 other cars on slicks,hard to fly in the face of such unaminous choice,especially whilst still trying to live down the debacle of a few years ago at the old Anglesey,(the other wet runner was Doug McClay)The real call was made by Chris Dittman,chief engineer for the day,I wanted to go wet fronts and slick rears,I,m glad I listened to the 21 year old G50 ace,the call was marginal but it paid off, especially on the first lap at the club chicane where a spinning Dallara among others(sorry Chris Woodhouse it wasn,t you after all)compelled me to do the full length of the chicane through the gravel trap (could not have done that on slicks). My old mate Jeremy Timms was a bit miffed,I thought i was faster,and held him up for quite a few corners before he proved his point and dissapeared!(said I cost him the race,he probably had a point).I had no idea where I was in the race but thought I was somewhere handy,spent a couple of laps beind Chris Anstruther who was sliding around ,finally got that done and set off after Neil(one Guy I do enjoy racing).I glued myself to his g/box going through copse where he promptly lost it.Bang,JKS vs Dallara,we both spun off,Dallara broken bones,JKS bent but still going,proving for the second time this w/end that Dallaras are no that strong after all.Then a lonely run to the flag and a surprising 4th place(thanks to the Woodhouses using cheap batteries!).Got to say the best part of the day was Ian Hughes winning the Ray Dacombe trophy in Rays old car,He would have been over the moon,God bless you Ray.
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Re: Silverstone GP/Britcar Races

Postby TFR » Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:56 pm

Sorry forgot to mention fridays race,couldn,t see anything!
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Re: Silverstone GP/Britcar Races

Postby jimblockley » Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:06 pm

Hi Tony Glad u are ok

shame you have spoilt the best looking Dallara in the field.Loks like ist an accounts nightmare,ouch!!!

Race 1, From 4th on the grid i manage to get away 1st but i was onthe outside and ended up with 2 wheels on the grass go into Copse so end up 4th on the run down to Stowe i past Neil the tag on to Adrian and Arty, i could not see much but manage to get along side both of them at one stage or another.I saw Adrian past Arty at one stage but he got back past Adrian. i was right behind adrian going into Luffield when he spun handing me 2nd place on what was to be the last lap.
On reflection except for the visability i quite enjoyed it seeing it was only my second race this season.

Race 2. I got away in second and tried to stay with Arty but i did not seem to have the grip he had on the drying but very slippery surface. i fnally lost another place to Dax an the Flying Jeremy Timms but on lap five on hangar straitgh the engine went bang so that was it, not sure what it is just lots of expensive sounding noises.


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Re: Silverstone GP/Britcar Races

Postby Ian » Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:55 am

Hi Tony, I was gutted to see your beautiful car so badly hurt, will you come and race in the 1600 class for old times sake at the last meeting? The agent is having its last 1600 race as its going back to FF2000 spec next season and I would like you to give me a good thrashing to end the season (its Sara writing this bye the way!!!!)!!! I'm sure Mr parkinson would allow you back!
Thanks for those lovely words Geoff, Ian and I are so happy with this win. Ian has phoned Mary and she was delighted. It was a great race between Ian and Parky, I was nearly being sick in the pits as they kept passing each other, poor Mick Baker had to listen to some VERY bad language as they battled it out.

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Re: Silverstone GP/Britcar Races

Postby jimblockley » Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:08 pm

Do i not remember i big discussion about the merits of led rain lights when the club made them compulsory.

I must disagree with Tristan a working rain light is far more effective than a non working one. I followed one for all of the first race at silverstone and found very difficult to judge where the car was in the spray.

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Re: Silverstone GP/Britcar Races

Postby samier » Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:24 pm

Tristan, I saw a huge difference between rains lights on various cars, some of the cheaper ones were poor, but still better than the car with no light. Some of the cars had very good lights that were high intensity and didnt have a problem with that.

If you want to race with cars that have no rain light thats your call.

As for lap records, you clearly have the fastest and most powerful car out there, enjoy earning them!

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Re: Silverstone GP/Britcar Races

Postby TFR » Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:44 pm

Hmmmmmmmmm.........
No love lost there then.
I would be interested to hear about Jeremys race, overtaking 40+ cars must be exciting, Arties must be quite boring(but we would all like to have been him this weekend), what about Simon Daveys weekend, often soaking wet and riding a funny bike how do you organise such a rabble into a credible racing club? and always finding something interesting to say at the prize-givings,what could you see from the comentary box,did we all look good?
What has happened to the Parkinson line,is it true after all that drumming up of trade for the 1600,s you will desert .Do you have a pinto(and do you know what that means in Spanish?).You are the 1600 rep,a good captain should go down with his ship,you get what you deserve in this life,not surprised your awning blew away!
GF (by the way these are personal views and not necessarily shared by other members of TFR)
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Re: Silverstone GP/Britcar Races

Postby Russ » Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:58 pm

tristancliffe wrote:Non-working rain lights are hardly worthy of black-flagging really. Especially as they are pretty useless in the spray. It's quite normal for several cars in a wet race to have non-working lights, either because the driver has forgotten, or because the light chooses to die, or due to water in the electrics. If you are relying on them then you are doing it wrong.


That seems to be a change of heart, from your stance at the end of a race at Cadwell a couple of years ago!
I seem to remember you were all for significantly improving the rain light performance of most of the cars on the grid.
A good rain light, placed correctly can significantly reduce the chances of an incident in very wet conditions.

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Re: Silverstone GP/Britcar Races

Postby tristancliffe » Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:40 pm

I'm pretty sure I said the race should have been called off before I crashed (probably a fairly normal reaction from people that crash whilst leading, especially as it was an unforced error). And I think I said that the cheapy rain lights shouldn't be allowed. But I don't recall saying that no lights working should be a disqualifiable offence, or one worth reporting to the CotC.
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Re: Silverstone GP/Britcar Races

Postby Vincent Fox » Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:51 pm

I guess people change there mind to suit there own agenda.

To suggest that a working high visibility rain light is not essential equipment on a race car shows a degree on inmaturity that hopefully is not supported by the club or race officials. Given this is an important safety issue that should be drawn to the attention of all club members I would hope this post is not deleted. To delete or censor this would convey the message that the club pays lip service to members personal safety

If you are not going to show a mechanical black flag to a car that can not be seen in a wet race (posing a significant danger) what would you use it for?

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Re: Silverstone GP/Britcar Races

Postby andrewcliffe » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:55 pm

The rain was not as heavy as Silverstone 2009! In 2009 it was a real deluge that started in the previous race. 2010 saw it just continue for most of the day.

Rain lights - the cheap round ones you can buy are really pathetic. Weren't they being outlawed or something? I'm presuming everyone who had rain light troubles, passed scruitineering with one? The square ones seem to be a lot brighter.

Regards Tristan's Cadwell crash, I think it was more having to come off line, substantially slower (less aero downforce, and standing water) that lead to his exit there. Positioning of the camera can make a big difference as well - what it sees is not necessarily the same as what the driver sees!

Despite using a rain cover, my main lens died during the weekend, probably due to water ingress. Its currently sitting in the airing cupboard in a tub with rice in it to see if it will recover. :( Water and electrics do not mix...
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Re: Silverstone GP/Britcar Races

Postby samier » Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:00 am

Waiting in the assembly area it started to rain very heavy, there was a delay in starting, but the time we set off the track was very very wet just as in 2009 and was raining just as bad from what I can remember.

Anyway, it does not matter if 2009 had more mm or rain fall during the race compared to 2010, point is that driver should have been black flagged for having a non working light. I know it was not his fault, because in the assembly area it was working fine and only died on the grid.

Talking about it wont change anything, but as long as cheap rain lights are removed, but I think the FIA spec or hight intesity ones should be made mandatory.

You can also spray some WD into the rice tub, as the vapours will help speed up the process.

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Re: Silverstone GP/Britcar Races

Postby Paperman » Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:18 am

There seems to be some confusion on the topic of rain lights

LED rain lights to FIA specifications are already required by Monoposto Regulations:
5.10.2 Rear Warning Lamp: An LED rear fog light to ECE Regulation 7, an FIA homologated LED rear warning light, or an LED stop light to ECE Regulation 38 is mandatory and must be mounted in accordance with K5 of the 2010 MSA Yearbook.

The alternative ECE regulations do not diminish the technical requirement to less than that required by the FIA, although it means the rain light does not need have an FIA homologation per se. When this Reg was drafted suppliers were charging very high prices for this homologation; and identical but much less costly non-homologated versions were available. Market forces seem to have now reduced the price of LED rain lights with FIA homologation, so possibly this wording could be be looked at again.

The rain light failure that I personally followed up after Friday's race was due to a blown fuse, I suspect maybe due to water ingress into the wiring, not a failure of the LED unit itself.

My understanding is that assembly area and grid marshals are not themselves able to remove a car from the grid for technical reasons, or decide to show a black/orange flag while the race is in progress. They can alert a Scrutineer and/or the CoC and he can authorise this action. I think it's therefore inappropriate and unwise to criticise specific marshals/officials without knowing about the information/decision processes that were involved.

We would certainly encourage everyone to take a close look at their rain lights before the next race at Silverstone on 16/17 Oct to make sure they do comply with the Regulations and will work reliably when called on.

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