Eligibility Question

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AndyY
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Eligibility Question

Postby AndyY » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:46 am

Just thinking out loud really. Don't consider this as the basis for a plan but I was just wondering if front engined "Clubman" type cars are eligible for Mono? You know the sorts of things - Mallocks, Visions, Phantoms etc.

They are usually considered to be "Sportscars" as they tend to have enclosed rear bodywork & cycle front wings but take the cycle wings off and hey presto! They definately only have a single seat & I don't recall any reg that says that Mono cars have to have open wheels! I suppose the body work could be changed but if anyone thinks that these sorts of cars aren't allowed to run alongside true single seater then think again as I have raced against them in both my old Vauxhall Lotus and the Vauxhall Junior in the old BARC-SEC races on the Silverstone Stowe circuit.

The Clubman series runs Rover K series engines at the moment so they would not be eligible for Mono as they are alloy engines but "Classic Clubmans" runs a class with FF1600 engines (Ideal for Mono 1600), The Swedish Championship runs Zetec engines (Mono 1800) and there are still a few Vauxhall engined derivatives around from when they ran in the defunct Vauxhall Supersport series (with engines to the same spec as the Vauxhall Lotus series, I think)(Mono 2000).

As I said, just thinking out loud really. It's (another) dull day at work!
Andy Yeomans - former Mono 1800 and 2000 racer (!?). Now CSCC and aspiring Clubmans racer.

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Re: Eligibility Question

Postby AndyY » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:32 am

Hi Tony

I have certainly seen pictures of Mallocks in FF1600 trim (sans any enveloping rear bodywork). I think thay also built an early one off FF2000 car.

In the Clubmans racing world of the late 70s, early 80s (ie pre Ralt RT3) the 1700 Crossflow engined versions had similar lap times to the F3 cars of the day.

Recently, the MG Rover K Sport engined Cars had a fastest lap of Silverstone National in 1 min 01, whilst the Classic Clubmans (tuned) 1700 Crossflow lap in 56. secs and the 1600 versions lap in 1 min 05s. Not sure what a Vauxhall engined version would do but as they would have similar Bhp to the Crossflow cars (if not a bit more) then I guess it would be similar to them.

Other comparisons for Snetterton & Thruxton show similar ballpark times to Mono.
Andy Yeomans - former Mono 1800 and 2000 racer (!?). Now CSCC and aspiring Clubmans racer.

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Re: Eligibility Question

Postby Hasbeen » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:01 pm

Shouldn't be a problem but would need open wheels to comply with MSA I think.
I have raced against Richard Mallock in Mono 1600 (Class B) in 1982/3. He was in a FF1600 Mallock (U2). Mallocks also raced in F2 in the '70's.
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Nick Harrison
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Re: Eligibility Question

Postby Nick Harrison » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:11 pm

The Monoposto Championship is for Single Seater Racing cars which definition in the Blue Book states 'the construction must be symmetrical' and 'when weighed without driver the half weight either side must be equal to half the weight +/- 5%.

Am I correct that some later Mallocks have offset engines?

Nick.

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lee
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Re: Eligibility Question

Postby lee » Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:48 am

AndyY wrote:Hi Tony

I have certainly seen pictures of Mallocks in FF1600 trim (sans any enveloping rear bodywork). I think thay also built an early one off FF2000 car.

In the Clubmans racing world of the late 70s, early 80s (ie pre Ralt RT3) the 1700 Crossflow engined versions had similar lap times to the F3 cars of the day.

Recently, the MG Rover K Sport engined Cars had a fastest lap of Silverstone National in 1 min 01, whilst the Classic Clubmans (tuned) 1700 Crossflow lap in 56. secs and the 1600 versions lap in 1 min 05s. Not sure what a Vauxhall engined version would do but as they would have similar Bhp to the Crossflow cars (if not a bit more) then I guess it would be similar to them.

Other comparisons for Snetterton & Thruxton show similar ballpark times to Mono.


Looking through some old Autosprouts in the past from the late 80's, I seem to remember that the clubman cars were as quick if not quicker than the F3 cars of the time.

Clubmans was a fantastic series back then. Very quick and close racing. It was spoilt somewhat with the introduction of the Vauxhall unit. The Pinto cars were so close and varied. Be quite often sat at Silverstone Woodcote corner on the club circuit (the old club circuit) watching these wrap themselves up the catch fencing....... Great days.
Ex Magic Motorsports official 3rd and test driver.
The other 883 outright race winner......seems so long ago!
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AndyY
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Re: Eligibility Question

Postby AndyY » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:53 pm

Tony, they were probably both. Clubmans always used to have A Sports for 1700 Crossflows (C 170-180 Bhp) and B Sports for FF 1600 engined cars. These both now populate "Classic Clubmans".

The Rover K Series became the mainstay in the early 1990s, I think, replacing B Sport whilst, A Sport was replaced by Vauxhall Supersports, inititialy with Vauxhall Lotus spec engines in the front of converted cars. The Vauxhall engined cars went their own way leaving the K Sport (front engined) Clubmans to continue on their own as a single class and is still reasonably succesful today. A decision was made to allow rear/ mid engined cars in to Vauxhall Supersports and to have full enclosed bodywork; then there was some sort of "palace coup" which resulted in front engined cars being banned! Subsequentley Vauxhall Supersports died a death but there are still a few front engined Vauxhall cars around in the hillclimb world and in SEMSEC races and some of the mid engined cars in things like BRSCC Open Sportscars.

In Sweden there is a Clubmans series for front engined cars with Zetec 1800 engines and some have fitted the Honda VTEC units. But then the Swedes always were mad!
Andy Yeomans - former Mono 1800 and 2000 racer (!?). Now CSCC and aspiring Clubmans racer.

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Re: Eligibility Question

Postby AndyY » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:35 pm

ArtyB wrote:The Monoposto Championship is for Single Seater Racing cars which definition in the Blue Book states 'the construction must be symmetrical' and 'when weighed without driver the half weight either side must be equal to half the weight +/- 5%.

Am I correct that some later Mallocks have offset engines?

Nick.


Yes, Nick, You are correct. Altough technically, I suppose, Mallocks and the like could still comply. The regs don't say that every aspect of the car has to be symmetrical about the centre line or we wouldn't be able to have Ralt RT30s to 34s with oil and water radiators in a large LH Sidepod and a much lower, shaped, pod on the RHS.
Andy Yeomans - former Mono 1800 and 2000 racer (!?). Now CSCC and aspiring Clubmans racer.

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Re: Eligibility Question

Postby AndyY » Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:03 pm

I see that Michael Mallock ran a front engined Mallock Mk 9 in the Walter Hayes Trophy (F Ford 1600) and did very well, whilst Ray Mallock ran a Mallock Mk 18B in the HSCC Open Wheel race against Classic F3 March & Chevron B25 single seaters (and came second) so it must be possible to run Clubmans type cars in single seater races (and be competitive).
Andy Yeomans - former Mono 1800 and 2000 racer (!?). Now CSCC and aspiring Clubmans racer.

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Re: Eligibility Question

Postby AndyY » Tue May 04, 2010 1:17 pm

Just the sort of thing to be different in Mono 1600:

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C153772/
Andy Yeomans - former Mono 1800 and 2000 racer (!?). Now CSCC and aspiring Clubmans racer.

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Re: Eligibility Question

Postby tombrown » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:35 pm

Hello All,

I have been racing an early 90's Mallock Mk29 in Clubmans this year, and am considering fitting it with a Vauxhall 2 litre for next year.

I know that the Mk9 and Mk22 Mallocks have raced recently in formula ford, there was a Mk20 that raced in Formula Atlantic, a Mk18 FF2000, and a Mk27 2 litre single seater hillclimber. All of these had a similar chassis layout to my car, and were eligible for the relevant single seater classes with mudguards removed.

So......If I remove the mudguards - and fit a mono 2000 spec engine, can anyone confirm that it will be eligable for mono 2000 in 2011?

Many thanks,
Tom

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Re: Eligibility Question

Postby AndyY » Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:49 am

Tom, I do hope you go for it.

& how about this for Mono 1400:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2138215.htm
Andy Yeomans - former Mono 1800 and 2000 racer (!?). Now CSCC and aspiring Clubmans racer.

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Russ
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Re: Eligibility Question

Postby Russ » Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:40 pm

Rear wing size?

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Re: Eligibility Question

Postby Hasbeen » Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:27 pm

Replying to Tom

The car is potentially eligible for any of the Mono classes and would need to comply with weight limit and the dimensions set out in Appendix 1 of Section G in the MSA blue book. We have had Mallocks running in Mono in the past - mainly Richard Mallock in a mk 9. Mallocks have run in FF1600 etc, F3 and F2 in the past.
Engine spec for Mono2000 and Mono Classic is slightly different (fuel injection being the main difference) so take your pick, it is likely to be eligible for both.

Best wishes
David C
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Re: Eligibility Question

Postby tombrown » Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:51 pm

Thanks guys,

I'd best get my saw out to chop off the bits covering the wheels, and trim that rear wing down!

All the best
Tom

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samier
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Re: Eligibility Question

Postby samier » Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:45 pm

You have some pretty impressive saws! The hack saw I used to cut the FVJ dash plate went through it like a hot knife through butter!

Good luck!


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